xmods,miniz

[Skv012a]

Sorry, I forgot to ask "what are you gonna do with it" prior to my bashing. A 170$ Z, if you use a proper body that protects your wheels, will easily outlast a stock Xmod and you won't need replacement parts. Even if you tank 130$ into an Xmod, it won't race nearly as nice as a Z due to s**t radio.

Why are there alum parts for Zs you ask? AfterMarket motor mounts give extremely good ventelation and are made alum because plastic won't really make sense; knuckles and kingpins will make front suspension much more smooth than stock, so besides durability there's a significant performance value in them; etc.

I've just noticed that ALOT of alum upgrades for xmods are mostly for show and knuckles and driveshafts are almost the only ones that would really help anything.

Same goes for AWD Z- various strong diffs that will handle very hot motors, driveshafts that won't strip on you or break, etc.

[dccracing]

ok, yess the motor heat sink makes sence and i guess the suspension also, but i have an xmod with stock electrics and just because of messing with the suspension will easily beat a stock or mildly modded miniz. i agree the electrics are crap. i also agree that the only aluminum stuff you need are the knuckles and really not even the rear ones as they are pretty well protected.

i agree it is really up to what they want to use the car with, but also you have to keep in mind budjet, which you again just totally ignored in my last post!

yes a 130 dollar xmod wont do anything against a miniz if the 130 dollars you spend on it are for items like stickers and big aluminum hunks that you put on just for show, but if you make all the right choices in functional upgrades, you can get a miniz beater for less than 130. its not how much you put into it, it is what you put into it.

its not how much you put in it, its WHAT you put into it that will make it perform better. your car is not going to do well if you add a 130 dollar hunk of aluminum to it...

[Action B]

Originally Posted by dccracing

ok, yess the motor heat sink makes sence and i guess the suspension also, but i have an xmod with stock electrics and just because of messing with the suspension will easily beat a stock or mildly modded miniz. i agree the electrics are crap. i also agree that the only aluminum stuff you need are the knuckles and really not even the rear ones as they are pretty well protected.

i agree it is really up to what they want to use the car with, but also you have to keep in mind budjet, which you again just totally ignored in my last post!

yes a 130 dollar xmod wont do anything against a miniz if the 130 dollars you spend on it are for items like stickers and big aluminum hunks that you put on just for show, but if you make all the right choices in functional upgrades, you can get a miniz beater for less than 130. its not how much you put into it, it is what you put into it.

its not how much you put in it, its WHAT you put into it that will make it perform better. your car is not going to do well if you add a 130 dollar hunk of aluminum to it...

NO. WRONG. On an RCP track, the most common surface used to race this scale, a hopped up xmod will NOT USUALLY stand a chance against a stock mini-z (excluding tires) unless the track is very untechnical. I'm only speaking on all wheel drive terms, as, I don't own a RWD mini-z. If you want to prove me otherwise I'm up for the challenge. Do you have an RCP track? A lapcounting system? If not you probably don't really know which is faster, if so, then lets do this. We will set up the same track, run stock motors, you run your xmod, I run my Z for 8 minutes and see who gets the most laps. I'm talking from experience and ready to back my comment up with proof, are you?

[dccracing]

well. i was talking about a rear wheel drive. i do not own an rcp track or lap counter, but my hobby shop used to host races in their basement where we would race minizs all the time. did you even read ALL the way through my post? i said it depends on the mods. but you most definatly can build an xmod that can kill a stock mini z. in fact its easy to. it would be very difficult to build an xmod and expect it to compete with a fully race modded z,. now, im saying this like there were no other variables like driver error and imperfections in the track. but if anyone with a miniz and an rcp track live near north canton ohio, i would Love to beat you.

[Doc Moddin']

Thanks, DCCracing.

I think you're the only one who gets it...yes, if money weren't an issue...if mommy and daddy had bottomless pockets, I would go into the Mini-Z--no question.

But with an XMOD, $120 buys me a fun car to run around in the basement, and over six months of fun taking it apart and tweaking it to see it get better.

Whereas with a Mini-Z, I have to cough up $150 just to get started--no mods, no changes to what it looks like or how it performs.

If I hit the lottery, or find some other way to suddenly run into alot of disposable income...then yes, I'll go for the Mini-Z...until then, I'm happy with my XMOD.

--Doc

[XMDrifter]

track test with the right upgrades.
stock mini-z 130 bucks
then race it against a 130 dollar xmod (including starter)
50 bucks for starter
17 bucks for regular bearings
12 dollars for a atomic motor can (non m1)
4 dollars for 30awg magnet wire to wind a patternwound 45-47t armature from a gutted stock stage 1.
16 bucks for AWD kit
19 bucks for 2 pairs of fets (2x2 stack)

so far only: 118 bucks

then shifting of the battery tray for a better balance (free)
lightening the bodyshell by removing unneccesary plastic (free)
take out the side-mirrors (free)
soaking tires in WD40 to chemically make them softer(most people have this around the house somewhere)

22 dollar rechargeable NiMH

bringing grand total to 130

mini-z still needs to buy batteries.

the two would be pretty evenly matched. sometimes the xmod can win, sometimes the mini-z can win.
it's just saying that sometimes an xmod is just more fun. you get do do more things to wi with the amount of money. the mini-z of course if much better, but at 130 bucks, you just get a stock one, no opportunity to add things. and tinker with it.

ah, but that's not usually.
reason being is that mini-z owners are in general more able to pick the most effective upgrades compared to xmod owners. xmod owners most of the time just slap stuff on and call it tuned. a small minority don't and that's the bit of xmod that can beat a stock mini-z. by no means will it stand up to a properly tuned mini-z, but against a stock one with minor mods like a diff or tires, it has a pretty good fighting chance. and being more resilient in collisions due to the thicker body, in an enduro, the xmod might have a chance when there's lots of collisions.

[dccracing]

yes i supose to the general uneducated public they would slap on a bodykit and hope the wings will make it WAAAY faster.

one thing you guys didn't count in were home mods such as deep dish rims that if well done, can greatly enhance the amount of cornering stability. FREE

a suspension mod i found on here somewhere that makes the evo have moving upper arms FREE

i ground away a bit at the steering internals and managed to squeeze the evo down to an 18.5 inch turning diameter versus 20 inches stock FREE

adding shims and spacers to eliminate wheel woble FREE as long as you have super glue and thin sheets of plastic and the right diameter nails/ pins FREEEEE

also properly tuning suspension alignment which could easily make or break a race. FREEE if you have the materials.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by XMDrifter

track test with the right upgrades.
stock mini-z 130 bucks
then race it against a 130 dollar xmod (including starter)
50 bucks for starter
17 bucks for regular bearings
12 dollars for a atomic motor can (non m1)
4 dollars for 30awg magnet wire to wind a patternwound 45-47t armature from a gutted stock stage 1.
16 bucks for AWD kit
19 bucks for 2 pairs of fets (2x2 stack)

so far only: 118 bucks

then shifting of the battery tray for a better balance (free)
lightening the bodyshell by removing unneccesary plastic (free)
take out the side-mirrors (free)
soaking tires in WD40 to chemically make them softer(most people have this around the house somewhere)

22 dollar rechargeable NiMH

bringing grand total to 130

mini-z still needs to buy batteries.

the two would be pretty evenly matched. sometimes the xmod can win, sometimes the mini-z can win.

You described it pretty well here. Keep in mind if this is a close race, I was suggesting both having stock motors, giving more of an advantage to the Z.

Originally Posted by dccracing

well. i was talking about a rear wheel drive. i do not own an rcp track or lap counter, but my hobby shop used to host races in their basement where we would race minizs all the time. did you even read ALL the way through my post? i said it depends on the mods. but you most definatly can build an xmod that can kill a stock mini z. in fact its easy to. it would be very difficult to build an xmod and expect it to compete with a fully race modded z,. now, im saying this like there were no other variables like driver error and imperfections in the track. but if anyone with a miniz and an rcp track live near north canton ohio, i would Love to beat you.

Look, if you haven't raced with a lap counter and a RCP track regularly, you cant qauntify the difference between the cars. It comes down to driver too.

Sure its fun to hook up your toys. When it comes right down to it, I'd rather purchase the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution over hooking up a Geo Metro "to see how fast I made it compared to how it was". Just the same, when you bring that Geo Metro to the track I'm going to laugh.

For the sake of this argument, I'll race a modified xmod and mini-z on the local rcp track with lap counter. Post your mod list I have some friends with Xmods I might be able to replicate your setup. I'm a pretty good racer so I'll do my best with both and post up the results. My track times are up on www.hfay.tinyrc.com . I participated in HFay season 6 and now in season 7. I'll make a seperate thread and try not to be such a **** lol.

[dccracing]

umm. that link didnt work. did i mention home mods? just adding a crap load of parts isnt all.

[bnR34]

I think that you guys strayed a bit far from deckerz original reason for this post..

[XMDrifter]

oh, everybody's got their own side to the debate.
it just depends on people's skills and their decision making.
like a z with just wings, lights, wheels and crap that doesn't really help, it's gonna lose.
try out Kel's xmod setup (from MZR. find "building a race worthy xmod")

[Doc Moddin']

Originally Posted by Action B

Sure its fun to hook up your toys. When it comes right down to it, I'd rather purchase the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution over hooking up a Geo Metro "to see how fast I made it compared to how it was". Just the same, when you bring that Geo Metro to the track I'm going to laugh.

You might as well argue that is is better to buy a stock Ferrari Enzo than to "hook up" a Mitsubishi Lancer Evollution. Or, better to to buy a stock McLaren F1...

When does it end? How much money can you throw away on a hobby? IT'S JUST A HOBBY. Either the guys against XMODS aren't ever gonna get it, or don't want to get it. Either way, I think DCCRacing and I are wasting our time.

Have fun racing out there...whatever you drive.

--Doc

[Action B]

Originally Posted by dccracing

umm. that link didnt work. did i mention home mods? just adding a crap load of parts isnt all.

http://hfay.tinyrc.com/ is the correct link.

And yes, home mods is fine. Keep in mind that I specified my argument on both cars have the same stock class motor and AAA batteries. No additional power adders or pcb swaps. FETs are fine. Basically, HFAY rules, HFAY track. Some of the rules on their website have not been updated*. I have the new Hfay manual on my computer.

[dccracing]

ya we are getting kinda far... what was the question? something tells me it wasnt "what is a better rear wheels drive car for racing on rcp?"...

[Action B]

Originally Posted by Doc Moddin'

You might as well argue that is is better to buy a stock Ferrari Enzo than to "hook up" a Mitsubishi Lancer Evollution. Or, better to to buy a stock McLaren F1...

When does it end? How much money can you throw away on a hobby? IT'S JUST A HOBBY. Either the guys against XMODS aren't ever gonna get it, or don't want to get it. Either way, I think DCCRacing and I are wasting our time.

Have fun racing out there...whatever you drive.

--Doc

Hmm. well, considering the cost of an evo is around 3 times that of a geo metro, it ends there. Isn't a mini-z around 3 times that of an Xmod? So where does the ferrari fit in here? or a mclaren? Oh wait it doesn't. I'm not speaking astronomical pricing here. A mini-z is the cheapest hobby R/C car you can buy ready to race, lets not be silly.

Originally Posted by deckerz

well im wanting to find out a few things as i cannot find a pic of the miniz parts i want.

so im getting mini z gpm rims with drift tyres. im wondering if you can put the wheels shafts from mini z into xmods evo or gen1.
on miniz wheels is it just a circle in the center?

For those complaining about this being off topic, the answer is you can use mini-z MA-010 swing shafts for the front of the xmod gen 1. No mini-z swingshaft is compatible with the rear of the xmod gen 1 or any of the swing shafts of the xmod evo.

Originally Posted by dccracing

yes i supose to the general uneducated public they would slap on a bodykit and hope the wings will make it WAAAY faster.

one thing you guys didn't count in were home mods such as deep dish rims that if well done, can greatly enhance the amount of cornering stability. FREE

a suspension mod i found on here somewhere that makes the evo have moving upper arms FREE

i ground away a bit at the steering internals and managed to squeeze the evo down to an 18.5 inch turning diameter versus 20 inches stock FREE

adding shims and spacers to eliminate wheel woble FREE as long as you have super glue and thin sheets of plastic and the right diameter nails/ pins FREEEEE

also properly tuning suspension alignment which could easily make or break a race. FREEE if you have the materials.

I'm willing to replicate anything you have done to settle this once and for all. Anyhow, Unless you can make a significant gain over the Z in camber/springs/toe-in etc, its still a hard argument as I see it. Xmods are still heavier, less precise,less responsive due to cheaper radio, have terrible heat dissipation and are more sloppily made. Even with your mod, a mini-z will STILL have a better turning radius. I'm ready to do this for real. I have two spare xmod evo sitting in my room lonely since I got my Z.

[dccracing]

ok, i admit, with stock electrics, it is pretty **** hard to win.... my car is hobby grade. so i guess its illigal, but if they both have z boards, it would be pretty even fight. xmod boards are crappy for racing. you can win with a stock board, but it would be tough....

[Action B]

Originally Posted by dccracing

oh, ok we are talkin stock electrics?!?!? ****. the z is the winner. ill tell you that already. i guess my xmods are illegal. they all either have hobby grade or z boards.

Thats a lot of work to put into an xmod! Boards make a huge difference, with a Z board in a hopped up Xmod, I would concede defeat.

For the price of an xmod, with miniz board and chassis upgrades, you have to be near the price of a Z though right?

[Doc Moddin']

Geez, Action B...you're just not getting it....

Originally Posted by Action B

Thats a lot of work to put into an xmod! Boards make a huge difference, with a Z board in a hopped up Xmod, I would concede defeat.

For the price of an xmod, with miniz board and chassis upgrades, you have to be near the price of a Z though right?

Yes--getting near to the price of a mini-z by modding an XMOD to beat a stock Mini-Z is the point...it's not just about winning races, it's about being RESPONSIBLE for the improvements...getting there is half the fun.

Here's a more concrete way of looking at it...

1. A guy buys a stock Mini-Z for $130

2. Another guy buys a stock EVO and puts in motor, FET, AWD, bearing, and suspension upgrades, does all the "free" mods mentioned in this thread and ends up spending the SAME $130 that the first guy spent.

3. According most, these two cars are now evenly matched...according to some, the "fully" modded XMOD will blow the doors off the stock Mini-Z.

4. The difference? The second guy has the satisfaction of being responsible for the improvements, of having the fun of putting in these upgrades. The first guy just opened the box and put batteries in FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. Maybe you don't agree, but it really is fun to do the tinkering. You said, "That's alot of work to put into an XMOD"...yes, it is! That's the point! Working on cars is FUN! I said it before, I'll say it again: "Getting there is half the fun."

Okay, I'm done now.

[bosco72]

I had the same forum last week.I look at this way you race xmod evo's you have fun you race mini z's you have fun.Radio shack made them to race xmods not z's.But my thoughts are the evo has a better set up then the MA-010 picture the Ma-010 with the same battery lay out as the evo.That would be the ultimate car.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by Doc Moddin'

Geez, Action B...you're just not getting it....



Yes--getting near to the price of a mini-z by modding an XMOD to beat a stock Mini-Z is the point...it's not just about winning races, it's about being RESPONSIBLE for the improvements...getting there is half the fun.

Here's a more concrete way of looking at it...

1. A guy buys a stock Mini-Z for $130

2. Another guy buys a stock EVO and puts in motor, FET, AWD, bearing, and suspension upgrades, does all the "free" mods mentioned in this thread and ends up spending the SAME $130 that the first guy spent.

3. According most, these two cars are now evenly matched...according to some, the "fully" modded XMOD will blow the doors off the stock Mini-Z.

4. The difference? The second guy has the satisfaction of being responsible for the improvements, of having the fun of putting in these upgrades. The first guy just opened the box and put batteries in FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. Maybe you don't agree, but it really is fun to do the tinkering. You said, "That's alot of work to put into an XMOD"...yes, it is! That's the point! Working on cars is FUN! I said it before, I'll say it again: "Getting there is half the fun."

Okay, I'm done now.

I can see how you would like that.

Its fun to do that stuff, but for me the really fun part is the competition. Trying to tune the car to win, trying to find out any little way to get an edge on the other drivers. Competition harbors true skill. Even if I did build an xmod its not going to win any races, I'll never really know if my car setup is a winner, or if my driving is top notch. Bottom line, when you go to a 1/28 scale race, even if you could beat a couple stock Mini-Z, nobody will be using a stock one. Heck, my Z has everything in the book done to it and still I haven't actually won a race yet. There are still challenges out there for me, just now its in tuning and driving, not upgrades, I already have them all.


I've known people with your mentality before. They would rather buy slower real cars and do motor swaps or build turbo kits and I see where they are going and I know why they like it. In the end I'm practical and stubborn. Thats why when faced with the decision to turbo my non turbo eclipse or buy another car, I went out and bought the turbo all wheel drive model. With my real car, like the Z, the sky is the limit.