The "WERE ALL ****ED" thread.

[texan_idiot25]

It's two-thousand-and-nine. 50 years ago, Chrysler made a jet engine powered car, GM built what would become the worlds most infamous motor, and Ford introduced the futuristic optioned Edsel.

Fast forward 50 years, Chrysler is stripped from a bad deal with the Germans, GM is having SUV withdraws, and Ford is selling off the kids to pay the bills.

Today was a big day for GM and Chrysler, as they pasted together a nice pop up book detailing their plans for use of our Tax payer money. Well, Chrysler's looked like a school project:



That is literally what Chrysler sent to the US Gov't...

We're all ****ed...


But, this is the short outline of Chrysler's plan:

1. They are asking for an extra $2,000,000,000 (I'm putting the zeroes so you see how big $2,000,000,000 is). This is due to the even larger decline in auto sales during December and January.
2. Cerberus, Chysler's current owners are not yet done with stripping the company down, and expects to cut costs another $700,000,000 .
3. Lay off 3,000 more workers
4. Kill off three more models
5. Reduce production capacity by 100,000 more units and
6. Sell off $300 million of non-earning assets.

Chrysler also argues that with the current plans to join with the European manufacturer, Fiat, that it will have a viable small car fleet in a short amount of time. Their deal with the Chinese company, Cherry, fell to shamble earlier this year. But with Chrysler's hilariously unprofessional looking report, can we see them lasting onto the future?



Oh, thank you Chrysler, answered that for me...







GM is facing a much bigger problem. Unlike Chrysler, who's car sales stay almsot entirely in the states, GM is a world wide manufacturer. And world wide sales have been falling (Daimler, owner of Merc-Benz reported a $1,400,000,000 loss last quarter, all sales are down across the board). GM is now looking at what some say it's needed to do for a long time; Downsize. GM owns some 13 brands.

So what does GM plan to do?

1. With GM's world wide operations, they are asking for an additional $16,600,000,000.
2. Sale Hummer brand, not yet looking to shut down the brand.
3. If Saturn cannot be sold, it will die at the end of it's current production run for it's models, with is 2011.
4. Pontiac to be downsized into a niche group of cars
5. Saab is to be sold, or file bankruptcy under the swedish government, if Sweden does not bail out their own Saab.
6. Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, GMC will be the core companies, while Pontiac is downsized (point 4)
7. More downsizing in dealerships

GM, though needing a more drastic amount of tax payer money, claims they can repay it by 2012, if all goes according to plan. With a portfolio of cars and future hybrid and electric cars ready in the pipeline, they have a large head start on Chrysler, which has... none...

Ford meanwhile is still just barely floating on the money they gained when Jag, Landrover and Aston Martin were sold off last year. They still plan to not take any gov't bail out money at this time. While Ford has no full electric car plans, their Ecoboost and hybrid cars have been brought to the table this year to help combat the ever impending CAFE regulations.

Folks, it's going to get interesting.

[Donziikid]

That's seriously all the input I have. I'm afraid for my economy here in Michigan. Hell, my father's not even into Automotive (got out of it a hell of a long time ago) and they've gone from $150,000 in sales per month (profit, not entire flow of cash) to $6,000. They're barely able to pay the electric bill to keep the **** lights on; let alone insurance, costs of labor and utilities. This is horrible, gentlemen, and we're in it until it's over..

[texan_idiot25]

GM has some hope actually in their plan. Chrysler's is full of ?'s unanswered. I haven't decided to read their 117 page plan yet, but going off of the press releases they put out today, GM actually makes some solid mentions of when it can pay back the Gov't loans...

[Action B]

I'd like to see the source on that information. It looks like a spoof ad. If the government was sent a picture from chrysler, I really doubt that they would make it public. Especially one as incriminating as that one.

I don't believe everything I read.


Furthermore, we are all probably fine.

[texan_idiot25]

Originally Posted by Action B

I'd like to see the source on that information. It looks like a spoof ad. If the government was sent a picture from chrysler, I really doubt that they would make it public. Especially one as incriminating as that one.

I don't believe everything I read.


Furthermore, we are all probably fine.

The Viability plans are both public.

It's all in Chysler's 117 page bail out plan:
http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/attachments/Restructuring_Plan_for_LongTerm_Viability.pdf

- http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/17/c...n-submitted-t/
- http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/17/2...-in-viability/
- http://jalopnik.com/5155433/2010-chr...ginary-hotness
- http://jalopnik.com/5155425/2010-jee...ts-a-new-daddy
- http://jalopnik.com/5155415/chrysler...irst-two-pages
- http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=142246
- http://jalopnik.com/5155367/chrysler...-electric-cars

GM's bail out plan: http://preprodha.ecomm.gm.com:8221/u.../docs/plan.pdf

http://jalopnik.com/5155436/gm-viabi...ence-live+blog
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/17/g...re-govt-loans/

And no, if any of the Big 3 go down, we are not fine. You fail to comprehend that. I don't just pull information out of my ***, I get my info straight from the horses' mouth, and some of their reporting friends.

[dontspamme]

Chrysler can't afford mirrors for the 300C?

Just had to throw that in there...

[texan_idiot25]

After sifting through Chrysler's 117 page plan, their basically screwed if they don't join with Fiat... All their CAFE friendly models, and future hybrid all depend on a future Fiat...





Not to mention their Hybrid drivetrain is from GM. Using the GM hybrid 6 speed tranny.

So, ActionB, believing?

[Action B]

That pdf is funny.

I don't know much about horses, or what you might get from their mouth. I'm just trying to say that there are two sides to every story. I'd let them go bankrupt. It might hurt in the short term, but the focus need not be on quarterly earnings. Its that mentality that got us into this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html

[texan_idiot25]

I agree on that front. It would also get rid of the union contracts as well..

I was hoping with my over all negative tone about the bail out bills that one could see that I was fairly against it.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by texan_idiot25

I agree on that front. It would also get rid of the union contracts as well..

I was hoping with my over all negative tone about the bail out bills that one could see that I was fairly against it.

Yeah I noticed that and I'm a skeptical reader. I agree that what happened is a bad situation. Its a money pit where we have to constantly bail out over and over again due to the "blackmail" of impending doom when they fail. I'd say just get it over with.

I still don't think that were F**** yet as you say, but I agree it does seem pretty bad.

[texan_idiot25]

If any of the big 3 crash, and had to close their doors for ever, it would mean a huge problem here in the US. Some 30,000 companies reply on GM alone for their business. For instance, if GM went out, those 30k companies would bein danger. This puts people out of employment, which brings the US down more.

Worse canse scenario of course, but not out off the table. Though for better or for worse, our new Pres won't let hat happen.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by texan_idiot25

If any of the big 3 crash, and had to close their doors for ever, it would mean a huge problem here in the US. Some 30,000 companies reply on GM alone for their business. For instance, if GM went out, those 30k companies would bein danger. This puts people out of employment, which brings the US down more.

Worse canse scenario of course, but not out off the table. Though for better or for worse, our new Pres won't let hat happen.

Yeah, lol I still can't beleive thats their ad. That picture looks so cheesy with the award next to it.

I'm for global economy and promotion of competition. I think that America can make competitive cars. I dont know if these companies can do it though.

[lupinechaos]

well ford is doing good i hear i was told from a co-worker of mine said that ford hasnt used any of the govt money (yet) i beleve will be fine but GM and Chysler has to get moving or they'll be gone before 2010.

[KITT222]

I dont know how old this is since i was sick the past two days, but anyways IMO, GM should strike Hummer, GMC, and Saab. GMCs are Chevy trucks and SUV's with new front fascias, Hummer is... well one of the worst ideas in the current age (it was awsome back when the gov't was saying that is you baught a car that could kill your average joe), and now it just lets everyone know your darkest secret(I'll get the noose ready...). Saab. Well. pffffff. Another small car brand? Saturn, wellll. semi-useful yet... Well again, dressed-up Chevy's

Chrysler, oh don't get me started!

They have ALWAYS been years behond the competition! And I hope to not offend all you MOPAR fans (even I, as a GM lover still like some MOPARs) but get real! They were late with the muscle scene, never made an electric car in the late '90s to comptete with the EV1, RAV4EV, etc, etc..., and now in the times of economic turmoil, gas prices (not as bad, but still take into account the economy)/gas savers, and 4 cylindars fast becoming the standard, well they're lacking. They have HEMI's available in almost every model, tastelest 5-year-old styling minus the minivan & Ram, and still stck with an SUV, and NO hybrids. (if you guys from Chrysler are reading this GET WITH THE AGES). They're so far behind, everybody has lapped them at least once! And Toyota and Honda are are so far ahead, and lapped them so many times, they have they're own lane!

Ford. (pause)
Pretty much the longest lasting company around! Good luck guys! (Once you're ready to sell off Volvo call me)

Well my opinion on the Big 3! Vital to the America Economy, yet behind the competition! (Woohoo! another American blunder! Aren't you proud of your country!) I love all of them (minus Chrysler for some unknown reason) but we all need to tell the truth sometimes!