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Old 03-09-2008, 05:48 PM
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Default So, you think you knew about motors?

Motors are an essential part of every xmod. However, the question modders have asked for years is "how can I make my motor faster". Well, there is alot more than meets the eye with motors. Simply buying a faster, prebuilt motor is an option, but wouldn't you like to know why a motor does what it does? Wouldn't you like to know how to get every single bit of performance out of your motor? Well, Let me tell you right now, you have alot to learn.

In this "Motor Bible" (yeah, color0, I stole the idea) you will learn not only how to tell if your motor works properly, but how the motor works, why it works, and everything else attached with running it. So, where do we start?

Chapter 1 How the motor works.
A motor is really more complicated than you think. All alot of people know is that you put electricity in it, and it spins. Why does it spin? Well, to figure that out, we have to learn the parts that make a motor.
Can/endbell: Holds the armature between the magnets. Often times, they will have ball bearings to reduce friction.
Armature: Holds the coils of wire needed for the "electro" in "electromagnet" Also holds the commutator on the end. Its the spinning shaft inside the motor.
Commutator/Comm: coils of wire are soldered to one of the three pickup points. Recieves electricity from the brushes, transfering it to the coils.
Brushes: The motor wires are soldered to this. It transfers the electricity recieved from the batteries to the comm, and into the electro magnetized armature

So, in very vague terms, here's what happens:
Electricity travels from the battery into the motor. The motor brushes recieve this electricity, and pass it down onto the commutator. The comm then transfers the electricity into the coils of wire, which act as electromagnets. The magnets on both sides of the armature pick up the electricity, and push and pull the arm, causing it to rotate. This happens very quickly.

Electricity always runs in a circuit, though, Red. Didn't you know that? The answer is, yes, I knew that. At any one given point in time, there are two pick up points on the comm seated on the brushes. This ensures that the electricity can pass through the negative brush, onto comm, into the coils of wire on the arm, back through the comm, and into positive brush, back though the circle.

Chapter 2 Upgrading your Motor

There are a whole bunch of upgrades available for your motor. Some of the most common are Neo magnets, and ball bearing cans. Some of the least common are timing advances, and water dipping.

There are two extremely general categories that motors fit into: Speed and Torque. These are the two most common things offered by aftermarket motors. Either its a torque motor, or its a speed motor.

Speed is achieved by low wind counts. The lower the wind count, they less distance the electricity has to travel, lowering resistance and rotating mass, while decreasing the electric field the magnets can pick up, lowering the force it turns the shaft (or the torque).

Torque is achieved by high wind counts and strong magnets. With more winds, there is more rotating mass, and more current for the motor mags to pick up. However, there is alot more wire for the electricity to travel through, and since electricity is already busy traveling through the winds, whats the rush to send continuous battery power? Higher wind batteries draw less current then low wind motors, letting them run cooler, and preserve your batteries longer.

Magnet upgrades:
Neo Magnets: uber strong magnets, great for high torque motors, and good for super low turn motors in need of torque.
Isotropic Ferrite Magnets: Not as strong as Neo magnets, but stronger than standard magnets. Great for FET stock motors, or motors in the upper 30's.

Brush upgrades
Carbon brushes: The brush material is made of a stronger material than stock, allowing for longer brush life.
Silver brushes: Extremely conductive, and efficient. However, since silver is soft, it won't last as long as a carbon brush
EGR "quick release" brushes: Uses a "quick release" style of brush. You don't have take apart the whole can, you just pop out the brushes.

Commutator upgrades
Copper FAT comm: A larger comm enables higher current flow, enabling the use of lower turns. Lasts longer than silver comms, but isn't as conductive. Prevents the "arcing" caused when motor brushes move between pick up points.
Silver FAT comm: Same as the copper comm, but uses silver instead of copper. Extremely efficient, but doesn't last very long. Prevents the "arcing" caused when motor brushes move between pick up points.
Tribo/other brand comm lube: Enables the comm to survive extreme heats, and lubricates it, lowering heat building friction.

Armature upgrades:
Spiral: Spreads the coils over a larger area, helping the magnets pick up the current. This helps eliminate the unmagnetized sections between poles.
Spiral slotted (10-15 degree) Same as the sprial, but slotted to reduce the electromagnets permeability, reducing magnetic force, and causing the rotor to spin faster.
Single/Double Slotted: Remove rotational mass, decreases electromagnetic permeability, and acts as a fan inside the motor
Skewed: Ghetto version of a spiral arm. You basically take a pliers and twist your arm to make it a spiral arm.

Endbell/Can
EGR "quick release" Motor Case: Higly ventilated endbell and can helps motor run cooler, ball bearings help to eliminate friction, and quick release brushes
M1 (HE) Motor Case: Shares a similar can to the quick release, but the endbell is drastically different. Based off of larger scale brushed motors, it feature adjustable brush springs.
Audley BB can: Durable, inexpensive BB can. Although, the endbell is made of an easily melted plastic, the case performs well.

Micellaneous
Bearing lube: Keep the motors bearings running smooth
Bushing lube: Keep the motors bushings from going tight. Use frequently!
Heat sinks/cooling fans: Keeps the motor cool, extending run times, and motor life
18g motor wire: Allows more current through, feeding higher end motors. Lowers resistance
Gold/Silver/Deans plugs: Lower resistance, and allow higher current travel.

Chapter 3Pattern winding

What is pattern winding? What does it do? Why is it so expensive? Whats the point?

Excellent questions. Pattern winding is when you wind the motors coil in a consistent pattern. It is used in precision, or incredibly high end motors to ensure the every gram of performance is pulled out of their motor. If done right (nice tight stacks, and identical pattern on each pole), the resistance is lowered dramatically. The current travel though the winds in a consistent pattern. It also lowers heat, thus making your motor run faster, longer, and more precisely. It is so expensive becase it can take up to 6-7 hours to finish a motor. The difficulty level is extremely high (ask anyone who's tried) and the chance of failure is equal that of stacking FETs. The point? A faster motor, which makes you feel very good

If you wish to learn to pattern wind, PM me, I'd be happy to help out. If you want a pattern wound motor, just PM me, and I'd be happy to make you one. Pattern winding tut coming soon!

Importance of the winds!- The winds are what make the motor. There is a single upgrade that you can do to your motor to get the most performance gain, it would be changing up the wind count. The lower wind count, the more RPM you get, but you also loose torque. The more winds you install, the more torque you get. One important factor in motor winds is the awg. Stock arms are wound with 32awg, and I wind a majority of my arms with 30awg. However, higher end motors (wind counts 20 or lower) should be using awg around 24-26awg. This allows for more current to be passed through.

Quick snap of my work. Thanks Kyle



Chapter 4 Common problems
My motor doesn't work! I need a new one!!!!

Wrong. There is a chance you may, but chances are, you just need to know how to fix it.

The motor doesn't respond: check to see if your connections are good. If so, remove motor and disect. Check the brushes wear. If the brushes are wore down, you'll need some new ones. I do brush replacement very cheap (5 bucks a pop) if you are incapapble of doing it yourself. If that isn't the problem, then look at the commutator. Are the wires under the tabs? Is there a good connection? If thats not the case, then you have a problem in your electronics or your drivetrain.

The motor is extremely slow: Check connections. If they are good, dissassemble motor, and check brushes, and commutator. Then, check the u-clip that holds the magnets in place. If it has popped out, then, the magnets will stick to the arm, causing binding. If thats not the problem, then check the bushing/bearing. If something has broke, or popped out of place, then binding will be the result. If none of these are your problem, move to the chassis, and run a diagnotics on that.

Chapter 6 Motor maintenance

If you want to keep your motor running well at all times, follow these steps:

Lube bushings/bearings
Polish comm and use comm drops
Break in new sets of brushes
Keep the connections clean
Replace bad bearings/bushings

Some stuff I forgot to add:
The poles! one of the most important parts of the armature. The poles are the gaps that hold the winds. In standard 130 motors, there are 3 poles, for 3 sets of coils. These are what are slotted or twisted, like the one in my avatar.
Capacitors- What are dem little annoying brown things on my motor? Those are called capacitors. They filter electronic noise created by the commutator on the brushes. This prevents radio interferance, creating better smoother reception.

Hope this helps some of you. If you have anymore questions, ask away.
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Last edited by RedSXmodder; 03-10-2008 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:53 PM
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Added and linked to the "Electronics Explanations" thread in FAQ section. Great writeup and good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic Explanations
RedSXmodder. He's a starting guy in the motor scene but winds some very nice armatures. Check out his work here on the forum and other forums and contact him if you would like a motor done for yourself!
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Last edited by Donziikid; 03-09-2008 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:28 PM
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Thanks much!
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:45 PM
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That is really cool, helps me understand a bit more, also I sent you a pm.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:00 PM
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I like it, i especially appreciate the fact that is your work and not copied and pasted.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:03 PM
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Sounds like you know alot.
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:14 PM
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Holy ****... I never even knew half of this stuff!! Exactly how long did it take you to write this?

I'm now scared. Thanks Red
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:40 AM
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cool, i think i'm gonna try to build myself a motor, could you pota diagram showing a motor and labeling the parts you talked about? i'm gonna pm you

thanks!
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:42 AM
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Very nice RedSX! The simplest and noob-friendly, as well as comprehensive introduction to electric motors I've ever seen!

Great job!

EDIT: Took a good hard look at your pics... Tight and organized winds! Will never get that off a machine wound motor! Very nice! You don't by chance wind 540-size motors, do you?
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Old 03-10-2008, 08:55 AM
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wow, i read part of the winding section, but holy cow this is big! i'll check back here whenever i need help, thanks for posting it.

EDIT: also, looking at the upgrade section, do magnets go in place of those square metal things inside the casing, around the coils? i might have some the right size, if so.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:05 AM
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very good info but what about poles, polarity and capacitors?????
lets not forget about AWG's and the advantages between them.
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Old 03-10-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDisFASTER View Post
Very nice RedSX! The simplest and noob-friendly, as well as comprehensive introduction to electric motors I've ever seen!

Great job!

EDIT: Took a good hard look at your pics... Tight and organized winds! Will never get that off a machine wound motor! Very nice! You don't by chance wind 540-size motors, do you?
Thanks mate! Good chunk o' time puttin them together, lol. As for the 540 motor, if you have a cheap stock motor you want me to give a try on, feel free (I'll do it free of charge, because of my lack of experience with larger scale)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bondo View Post
very good info but what about poles, polarity and capacitors?????
lets not forget about AWG's and the advantages between them.
Working on it!
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Old 03-10-2008, 08:03 PM
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Hey RED, one thing about the Auldey cans.
I have had my fair share, around 10 or so.
After you open then around 5 times, the tabs fall off, they are extremely brittle when you keep bending them back and forth, so you might want to add that.

Never had that problem with the Atomic cans.

Also, I'm sure you've seen the PN BB can, it's on Maine-iac-motors, it's like 8 bucks, comes with tropic mags, but the endbell is just like an Atomic quick release, except it uses the standard brushes, and the sides are large cooling holes.

Maybe you might want to add that in?
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Old 03-10-2008, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt456 View Post
Hey RED, one thing about the Auldey cans.
I have had my fair share, around 10 or so.
After you open then around 5 times, the tabs fall off, they are extremely brittle when you keep bending them back and forth, so you might want to add that.

Never had that problem with the Atomic cans.

Also, I'm sure you've seen the PN BB can, it's on Maine-iac-motors, it's like 8 bucks, comes with tropic mags, but the endbell is just like an Atomic quick release, except it uses the standard brushes, and the sides are large cooling holes.

Maybe you might want to add that in?
I noticed that. However, I don't think the Atomic cans tabs are meant to be bent (lol). The endbell sort of snaps in, and its ridiculously hard to pry the taps over it. I just use CA glue and glue it shut. If I have to open it, just stick a little flat head screw driver and pry it open.

I've heard fitment issues (read Kel's thread on MZR) with the PN BB can with EVO's, but haven't really tested them it so...

Later,
RedSXmodder
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSXmodder View Post
I noticed that. However, I don't think the Atomic cans tabs are meant to be bent (lol). The endbell sort of snaps in, and its ridiculously hard to pry the taps over it. I just use CA glue and glue it shut. If I have to open it, just stick a little flat head screw driver and pry it open.

I've heard fitment issues (read Kel's thread on MZR) with the PN BB can with EVO's, but haven't really tested them it so...

Later,
RedSXmodder
pn cans and atomic cans are slightly smaller. you'll just beed a piece of e-tape under the motor can and a little on the side to get it to fit just right.
yeah i hate how hard the atomic ones are to bend. i ended up just not bending them.

it's called fatigue. quick chemistry lesson:
metals have electrons moving through the whole piece of metal, basically all the atoms sharing all their electrons. but when the metal is bent, that pushes the nuclei of the atoms closer together. since all nuclei are positively charged and positive repels positive(electromagnetic forces) the metal is weakened because the metal's atoms are repulsing each other. the more you bend it, the closer the nuclei get. when they get too close, the nuclei have a strong enough repulsion to push the metal into pieces.

there you go.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:24 PM
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umm ok, aren't you a few months late?
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