Rack your brain...

[BART]

Originally Posted by imstock

The question states the the treadmill moves in the opposite direction at the same rate of speed at the which the planes moves forward. This keeps the plane from moving forward. The plane can obtain lift because the prop is directing air over the wings. If you don't believe me look it up yourself, there's no debating it.

Your completely missing some simple physics here. The wheels on the plane are free rolling... the treadmill can go in reverse 10 million miles an hour and the plane will still move forward. If the air generated by the prop was enough for liftoff, why would they make the wings so wide??? so that they react to the air as the plane moves forward through the air. the air created by the prop moves straight back, it does not magically spread out to match the width of the wings. Even in all of the videos you provided the plane moves forward. not 1 vid shows the plane achieving liftoff while standing still and a treadmill moving the opposite direction.

[zippo855]

Originally Posted by ZX9RBART

Your completely missing some simple physics here. The wheels on the plane are free rolling... the treadmill can go in reverse 10 million miles an hour and the plane will still move forward. If the air generated by the prop was enough for liftoff, why would they make the wings so wide??? so that they react to the air as the plane moves forward through the air. the air created by the prop moves straight back, it does not magically spread out to match the width of the wings. Even in all of the videos you provided the plane moves forward. not 1 vid shows the plane achieving liftoff while standing still and a treadmill moving the opposite direction.

in the link i posted it states this. no matter how fast the conveyor is going the plane will move forward. just say the planes take off speed is 100 mph, the conveyor is going to move reverse at 100 mph. the plane is still going to move forward til it reaches its 100 mph mark. and take off. the plane doesnt stay still and take off. the planes thrust will propel it forward. the wheels are basically frictionless. the tires would be moveing at speed of 200 mph when it reaches take off, but it will be moving forward. and hwo that comes up is 100mph reverse conveyor, 100 mph forward plane. 100 +100 = 200. the wheels do not control the speed of the plane. the prop / turbines thrust does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul_5...eature=related

the only exception to a plane not needing to move forward to take off is the harrier jet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_4oD...eature=related

[BART]

Originally Posted by zippo855

in the link i posted it states this. no matter how fast the conveyor is going the plane will move forward. just say the planes take off speed is 100 mph, the conveyor is going to move reverse at 100 mph. the plane is still going to move forward til it reaches its 100 mph mark. and take off. the plane doesnt stay still and take off. the planes thrust will propel it forward. the wheels are basically frictionless. the tires would be moveing at speed of 200 mph when it reaches take off, but it will be moving forward. and hwo that comes up is 100mph reverse conveyor, 100 mph forward plane. 100 +100 = 200. the wheels do not control the speed of the plane. the prop / turbines thrust does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul_5...eature=related

the only exception to a plane not needing to move forward to take off is the harrier jet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_4oD...eature=related

Thank you. At least someone has my back.

[fiberworkz]

Originally Posted by imstock

.............The plane can obtain lift because the prop is directing air over the wings............

If this was the case; why couldn't we just forget the treadmill, hold the plane stationary and wind the engine up to takeoff? If what you're saying is true this idea would work.
Almost all of what you're saying is completely preposterous. The treadmill being there make absolutely no difference in the length of the runway.

[BART]

Originally Posted by fiberworkz

If this was the case; why couldn't we just forget the treadmill, hold the plane stationary and wind the engine up to takeoff? If what you're saying is true this idea would work.
Almost all of what you're saying is completely preposterous. The treadmill being there make absolutely no difference in the length of the runway.

More truth, how about the next time a "chaos" thread is made some research is done first.

[fiberworkz]

Originally Posted by ZX9RBART

More truth, how about the next time a "chaos" thread is made some research is done first.

I totally agree, quite frankly this is one of the stupidest debates I've seen in awhile. The answers are obvious; the plane will takeoff, you can't create lift while remaining stationary [barring a stong headwind] and the treadmill won't affect takeoff distance in the least.
And a few questons for imstock; Why wouldn't the plane move? How does the plane create lift at a stand-still?

[imstock]

Originally Posted by fiberworkz

If this was the case; why couldn't we just forget the treadmill, hold the plane stationary and wind the engine up to takeoff? If what you're saying is true this idea would work.
Almost all of what you're saying is completely preposterous. The treadmill being there make absolutely no difference in the length of the runway.

Ever flown a model airplane?

You hand hold the tail in your hand, spool the motor and it will take off from a completely stationary position.

[zippo855]

Originally Posted by imstock

Ever flown a model airplane?

You hand hold the tail in your hand, spool the motor and it will take off from a completely stationary position.

i have seen people do this and it will take off in a shorter length than normal, but with these airplanes there is a difference from real airplanes. the amount of thrust to weight ratio that these model airplanes put out is a lot different than real planes put out. and it also depends on the type of plane you are doing it with. how the wings are set up in correspondence with the engine.
i highly doubt that you will be able to accomplish this with a 1:1 airplane. if you could get it to have enough thrust to weight ratio to take off like this you would most likely damage the structural integrity of the plane when trying to hold it stationary.

[Donziikid]

Originally Posted by imstock

Ever flown a model airplane?

You hand hold the tail in your hand, spool the motor and it will take off from a completely stationary position.

Yes, I have. I'm a member of Skymasters RC. One of the nations largest RC Flight Clubs and host of the Mid-West Regional Float Fly.

In light foam airplanes where the ratio of weight to size is disproportionate to that of a full sized airplane, yes. I have never seen a scale plane able to do that. Even the foamies take a massive dip towards the ground before there is enough airspeed and wind flowing over the wings to create lift.