January 10'-11' Build Off: 1990 Miata

[winner]

hmm, lol oh yea.... you dislike german but like japanese? i do remember toyota gave us a very good present on the prius. hmm what was it? oh yea! it was the amazing ability to stop and not get stuck at full throttle like a death trap would! yay! thanks japan!

[texan_idiot25]

Originally Posted by Blade.

Reasoning behind all of your assumptions?

No ranting please. I would like to fully understand why you hate German vehicles so very much.

Also to note, please do not say 'Electrical problems in the Volkswagens' or any of that please. Its like a T.V. on repeat... Just never stops and only shows that there is nothing else to claim that a Volkswagen is utter garbage because of one item...

No vehicle is perfect, but if they get you from point a to point b with no problems then that is what they are for.

Hell, I'd drive a Ford for that, and I dislike Ford greatly...

Oh, and to make this a little more intresting... Atleast German cars aren't using leaf springs like the Corvette is.

But all in all, I would really like to know your reasoning behind the hatred towards German built vehicles... Without a rant?

Thanks Phillip.

Tom.

-Not assumptions, general problems on a model by model basis:

-BMWs, especially their larger models have problems. Their V8 and V12 models are iffy at best, and enjoy buying parts for them. The 80s I6 ones stand well, but like previously mentioned parts are more costly (then comparable era cars) and sometimes harder to find. Maintenance parts on the 90s and up is quite costly and often difficult.

-Mercedes Benz went to hell in the 90s. One of the more famous examples is their biodegradable wiring harnesses. Guess what those wires are doing 10-20 years later? They went from solidly engineered and rather simple cars like the venerable W123, to overengineering for the sake of it. Quality dropped like a rock in the 90s for them, and it shows.

-Electrical problems on a VW are very common. Ask an independent mechanic. Their habit of random electrical faults in the dash is mindblowing, and their long term reliability ratings are down by Suzuki.

-I won't even begin to rant on any British or Italian efforts (outside of the obvious supercars where things like long term reliability mean nothing). But, look up Stirling. BL managed to take a reasonably reliable Honda drivetrain, and give it British quality. The brand failed because of build quality problems.

-You just showed how blatantly ignorant you are, but do look up the advantages of a composite transverse leaf spring and why it was used in some Vettes. This isn't an S10 suspension.

hmm, lol oh yea.... you dislike german but like japanese? i do remember toyota gave us a very good present on the prius. hmm what was it? oh yea! it was the amazing ability to stop and not get stuck at full throttle like a death trap would! yay! thanks japan!

Who said I like all Japanese? Where have I praised Toyota? And how the hell do you think I have approval for the Prius?

So far I've praised the 1st generation CRX, and the NA Miata, generally disregarded any other 90s FWD Jap car. You've taken my statement on Euro cars and concentrated on a few select German models because you are a BMW fanboi.

Arguing with ignorance gets no place boys. While many models are all great and fine while running, we're not talking about performance attributes. The ability to stay running and get parts cheaply is most important to a person on a budget in college. Neither of you can afford the cars you're defending, so I'd love to see the both of you go out and buy your respective fine, well used, German automobiles and live with them for a good while. And do so with less than $3,000. I'll see your Jetta and V12 Bimmers later.

[texan_idiot25]

Hell, 90s used car problems in general-
Cadillac- 4.9 and early NorthStar motors are problematic too. They both eat head gaskets with age (with the Nstar pulling bolts out of the block), and both leak oil. GM has a tech note stating 1 quart of oil for every 1000-2000 miles is acceptable in the north star.
Chevy (and cousins)- 4bangers are meh at best. Quad 4s, while powerful, were ****. Common problems on the early compact cars (cavi, grand-am) were over heating, and they fall apart. V6s, the 3.1, 3.4, and the venerable 3.8 were very good engines in the long run. Basically, if you stay away from the 4bangers, the mid and full size cars are good running cars. And, you could get station wagons with Corvette based LT1s.
Ford- some cars had electrical problems, but main problem (in my experience) is maintenance work is difficult. Ford loved special bolts, tools, fittings etc. Started to drop the ball and became complacent with models. IMO the only cheap Ford worth buying is an ex-cop Crown Vic, or maybe the occasional Lincoln Mark VIII (beware of air suspension, $$$ to repair when the bags do fail)
Chrysler/Dodge- If it wasn't powered by their old V8s, it was usually ****ty. The Neon proved to be a good import fighter, dominated SCCA racing too, and was probably the most real reliable car from them at the time. Build quality was at an all time low. Benz and Mitsu were bad for the brand in the end.
Mitsubishi- DSMs, cheap econoboxes, disposable cars. In bed with Chrysler from the 80s
Honda- boring sedans, a few hot models. basic reliable transport
Toyota- killed any last signs of performance or cool. Cars generally reliable, but some of the most boring things you can buy on 4 wheels. Cheap.

This is all based on research, experience, independant mechanic (and friends of mine) observations and my own observations while searching for cheap DD's.

[Blade.]

I'm ignorant....

However, leaf's are OLD, completely useless in a vehicle that is and was built for an American based super-car... Viper > Vette in this case. Viper has the four wheel independant coil suspension, with a much larger engine at that. However, this is not here nor' there so with that being said, what I just said about the Viper and Vette are useless.

Anyways... BMW's are yes, expensive. Yet they are a ****ed good vehicle make, same as Volkswagen. Who gave us the diesel engine? The germans. Who gave us an 8 Speed Automatic in an SUV that has a diesel engine? Volkswagen. Who owned Volkswagen and used it as a cover-up for many items? Adolf Hilter who was Austrian.

Audi ; Owns Lambo. Made the Lambo's far better because of the Quattro AWD system. Also gave them a hell of a lot more space, and a relaxed feeling.

Porsche ; Let me see an Asian/American company make a vehicle that is NEAR perfect with weight, with the vehicle being rear engine rear wheel driven(or AWD.)

Volkswagen ; Lowest priced German vehicles, but all in all, still extremely good. Doesn't matter if it has electrical problems, go out and buy a new wiring harness from some OEM company and do the work yourself. It doesn't take that long if you know what you are doing.

Mercedes ; Never really compensated much for them... Never really true toned to how great or how horrible they were. So this area I am un-concerned about.

BMW ; Expensive to repair, like you noted. Yet, treat them good and they live for a long time. That goes for all vehicles, treat them well and you can have a vehicle roll over to 750***miles/kilometers.

Toyota ; Pretty decent vehicles engine wise. Body not so great due to the rust issues... However, any Japanese made computer in any Toyota and you will not have the problems as the American made computer in any Toyota's. Sticky accelerator, ECM problem. Found in, the American built computer.

Tom.

Nice doublepost

[texan_idiot25]

Originally Posted by Blade.

I'm ignorant....

However, leaf's are OLD, completely useless in a vehicle that is and was built for an American based super-car... Viper > Vette in this case. Viper has the four wheel independant coil suspension, with a much larger engine at that. However, this is not here nor' there so with that being said, what I just said about the Viper and Vette are useless. \

Dual Over Head Cams are older than Pushrods, what's your point? Hell, piston engines are really old! Age means nothing and you've yet to actually learn anything about a composite transverse leaf spring. The Vette is still 4 wheel independent, and does use magnetic-fluid dampened coilovers in the ZR1, "base", and GS models. And, when the Z06 did use it the single leaf spring, it had the upper hand over the Viper quite often at the time. The only Viper that was "better" was a barely street legal package, the ACR. Which has the bare minimum needed to be street legal, and if I recall right ran it's Nurb run on R-compound tires.

Once again, you're bringing new vehicles into this argument, and none of which that I've criticized for this comparison.

BMW ; Expensive to repair, like you noted. Yet, treat them good and they live for a long time. That goes for all vehicles, treat them well and you can have a vehicle roll over to 750***miles/kilometers.

Never true for all vehicles. That's probably one of the most ignorant things said tonight.

Thomas Dawson (since you seem to find some satisfaction in knowing my name), you talk a lot with knowing so little. You've done this repeatedly.You can't stay on topic, on argument, or anything else. Hell, you pick some of the silliest things to argue about like the Corvette's single leaf spring, which you can't even find actual fault with. You might as well gripe about pushrods while you're at it.

So I challenge you to this: Go buy one of the cars you claim to be all mighty. Seriously, go grab an 80s V12 bimmer. Or, can you not afford anything that you've praised? That would entirely void your attempts here, which is by all means finding cheap and reliable DD's. Not money-is-no-object comparisons.

[Osiris19]

o.o This thread's gone to the deep end. I'd like to see some progress, not arguing.

[winner]

Originally Posted by texan_idiot25

because you are a BMW fanboi.

what does thgat have to do with anything? im not too picky with cars, lol the only thing i have to say when buying a car is off brands like geo are crap, and FWD was made by satin... i even had a ford! lol and liked it!

I'd love to see the both of you go out and buy your respective fine, well used, German automobiles and live with them for a good while. And do so with less than $3,000. I'll see your Jetta and V12 Bimmers later.

i see happiness in your future, im looking to buy a E30 325i within the next year for around $2,500

Originally Posted by Osiris19

o.o This thread's gone to the deep end. I'd like to see some progress, not arguing.

not arguing, constructive critisim

[texan_idiot25]

Originally Posted by winner

i see happiness in your future, im looking to buy a E30 325i within the next year for around $2,500





not arguing, constructive critisim

As mentioned, old E30s aren't bad (but if we're strictly talking performance, the Miata is a better car). But defend your point that all BMWs are good, go big, get the V12.

The problem with you being a BMW fanboi is that you have heavy bias. Bad for you is you can't find any fault with that, and have thus far defended BMW/German cars with little reason for the sake of this topic. Hell, you even attempted to say I liked, approved of, or had some acceptance of Toyota, their problems, or the Prius. And if you've paid any attention to this site over the years, or facebook, you'd see why that made you look like an aimless fool, grasping for any gutless argument you could.

And yes, mindless *****ing and arguing from the both of you. You both took insult to my opinion and then started whining with German fanboism.

Now, unless you can actually respond with anything creative or relevant, don't even bother typing. Neither of you know as much as me honestly, this is pretty clear now, especially for Tommy boy, and his Topgear-esque jab at Corvettes. The both of you just got mad that I'm not bashing some rice boy for once, and Tommy boy is mad that I caught his BS in the Chevy thread last week.

o.o This thread's gone to the deep end. I'd like to see some progress, not arguing

Turning this one around, may have someone picking it up for a project. The car was neglected by several mindless previous owners, and I don't want to deal with the problems in the long run as a DD, stuff like crossthreaded sparkplug holes, little **** like that.. Looking for a later 1.8 NA with a bit more guts, and no short nose crank problems which was caused by a previous owner, there were signs that it had been screwed with before.

[Blade.]

How's this, I got my 1989 Toyota Camry, at $600.00 Canadian. You dislike Toyota, well. This is one **** good vehicle.

It's pretty hard to find an 80's V12 BMW up here. Sorry chap. Cannot help you out there.(Not bimmer, it's beamer. Learn to spell )

I can pick up a 1980's Jetta for about $500.00 here in town, has the diesel engine in her, and runs perfectly fine. Why don't I pick it up? Rather not waste space in my driveway nor' am I arguing with you about items. Maybe you should realize the factor that not everything you think is reality, maybe you should get your head out of your arse and have a sense of diginity and allow yourself to be open minded instead of a close minded ignorant asshat, (and at that I'm expecting some points with that sentence.) You show no respect to anyone on this forum, you bash members. Who in fact probably have more knowledge than you. Where do you source your information? I see that you edit your posts, and then put in more information. Are you googling these facts? Are you using that site, Jalopnik? I'm curious. How are you getting this information? Cause' I know your highschool Auto class don't give you that information. I've gone through the courses in College to get my Auto-Ticket.

Hell, I was doing first year college in grade 12. What are you doing? Still working as a pizza boy delivering pizza's in your Kirby car? I think so. I might be younger than you, but I am a whole lot smarter than you.

What is this BS in that Chev. thread? I see none, seeing as you gave me a challenge, that I will not fulfill for your lacking. Try and bend steel piping. Do it, because I can. I can do it without a pipe-bender. You cannot say anything until you have tried it, and yet you still flap your jaw at every little item. You are truely turning into something that I dislike, a lazy hypocrite.

You say I got mad? You've got to be kidding me on this. I am enjoying your comments to my posts. All you are doing is feeding me, and making it easier to troll you.

You've stepped on un-easy ground, now it's your move Phillip Thomas.(I got your name from Facebook, good job on finding stuff on Facebook! Look at how smart you are!)

Also, since when was it ok to use 'boi' as a term for boy? Pretty sure it was fanboy last time I checked. God, you should learn how to spell... Pretty sure you've become a ricer in fact. Your claiming this is only for a DD. F' That. Your close minded, you claimed Camaro rules all, now your bending over for that CRX and that PoS Miata. Hell, that isn't even a good year for the Miata. Useless garbage is what it is. Yet, calling me Tommy Boy isn't going to change a thing, sure my name is Tom. What's it to you? Pretty sure you got your name the same way I did. From our parents, however.. I'm not sure what kind of clique you grew up in. As far as I know, your an a-hole and will always be one.

If you think you can call someone out, then do it right now. Call me out, call me out right now, and don't edit your post this time. Cause' you have no knowledge what-so-ever, and when you google your information you then edit your post. I watch, I learn.

Good-day Phillip. It's your turn, and I've already pinned down your king.

[winner]

.

Originally Posted by texan_idiot25

As mentioned, old E30s aren't bad (but if we're strictly talking performance, the Miata is a better car). But defend your point that all BMWs are good, go big, get the V12.

for the price the miata is better but for track the bmw will win, besides how many mazda touring cars are there? oh yea. i know


lemon's 24H thats just what i want to drive around daily.
The problem with you being a BMW fanboi is that you have heavy bias. Bad for you is you can't find any fault with that, and have thus far defended BMW/German cars with little reason for the sake of this topic.

i am not bias, i am actually very open minded, but i also have strong opinions, and when you go around saying " the honda crx is the only good handling car in the 80's" or w/e it was then that strong opinion jumps in. and i will admit that bmw's do have there flaw but it was almost never huge. and if im a bmw fanboi then i must also be a ford, chevy, audi, nissan, and subaru fanboi.

Hell, you even attempted to say I liked, approved of, or had some acceptance of Toyota, their problems, or the Prius.

i never actually said you liked, approved, or had any acceptance of toyota, but you have fallen under the spell of japanese death traps as seen by your last two cars, and that was just to point out what japan has been kind enough to give us, a car that trys to kill you, but they didnt do that in japan

.

[Blade.]

Winner claims a good point in this. Phillip, seeing as your influx to even bothering with reading our posts and seeing only a few items, only to me seems ironic. Your claiming that the Combustion engine is older than Leaf Springs, got news for you. The Leaf Spring is older. Far older, older than a steam powered engine, a coal powered engine. It's a Roman Invention in the B.C. Ages, when they made Horsedrawn Chariets for War.

You should really put on your thinking hat and gain more knowledge then I. I'm not seeing anything of your knowledge to be more than mine.

Almost have you at Check and Mate.

[FloydfanYodaman]

um...could we not involve toyota?...m'kay?...we are having enough issues this year without you 3 stirring the pot thanks...carry on ...

[texan_idiot25]

Winner- You do realize E30s are common in the 24 hours of Lemons too? But hey, you ignored just about every SCCA and Spec Miata racing series out there, along with all levels of amateur racing.. Now, if you're going to bring in DTM cars, well might I interest you in comparing apples and oranges? Total race cars =/= street cars. You've yet to bring any real arguments to the table, trying to discount the Miata in racing is pretty silly if you've ever paid attention to motor sports, especially in amateur racing.

Originally Posted by Blade.

Winner claims a good point in this. Phillip, seeing as your influx to even bothering with reading our posts and seeing only a few items, only to me seems ironic. Your claiming that the Combustion engine is older than Leaf Springs, got news for you. The Leaf Spring is older. Far older, older than a steam powered engine, a coal powered engine. It's a Roman Invention in the B.C. Ages, when they made Horsedrawn Chariets for War.

And the wheel is older than all of that, not making any progress here kiddo. You've still yet to have an actual reason against the Vette suspension, just pathetic gripes about it being "old", which is no good argument.

As for your rant above, it's so full of factless *****ing, hypocrisy (***** about spelling, and then misspell words) and now personal complaining (a true sign that you've run out of logical arguments about the topic at hand) it's notta bother to respond to. You've proven your ignorance countless times on this site, the only thing you manage to do is get wordier. Unless you can respond to my initial arguments (not sarcastic bull**** and wordplay) about any of the models I've talked about, you've got nothing to stand on. Get over yourself Tommy boy.

FWIW I edit to pickup on spelling/grammar errors mostly, but little info actually changes.

And saying I'm close minded with my crop of car choices? Le sigh.

[texan_idiot25]

I'll end this argument with this:


The Miata should go to a new home for $2700ish. For my adoring fans, that's the $200 CRX sold for $1500, and when this deal is done, the $1700 Miata for $2700. What's next is up in the air, still want to continue with a 1.8 Miata. Alternatively the 2nd plan is to maybe flip cars, climb the price totem pole, sell what ever I have by next summer and dump said profit right into the last bits of the CST10. 3-4k would do nicely for the cab & trans swap with plenty left over, and is very attainable even if I just keep the 1.8 Miata.

[Lucky7]

You sound like that 15 year old that started with a phone or something and kept trading up till he owned had a Porsche. Don't stop! Who knows what you may end up with.

[Blade.]

Phillip, you might want to take note. I do not mis-type or mis's'pell any of my words. I speak real english. Not lazy english. You know how you spell colour, 'color' well.. Got news for you, it's actually spelt colour. Showing it's proper english. Who first came up with english? Oh that's right the British.

Your claiming useless facts, saying I am ignorant is ubsurd. You should take note on your own posts. In fact, I do believe you are the most ignorant bastard on this site! Hell, I don't think I have met anyone as ignorant as you.

How am I posting sarcastic bull? I'm posting truth. My knowledge > Your knowledge. Face it, I'm younger and smarter. Been through college earlier than you. God, your making me regret even posting on this thread because YOU cannot TAKE any of this. You CANNOT take critism, you CANNOT take in facts about vehicles that ARE GOOD. You are close minded to things you want to view. It is obvious, you should take time and think things through...

S - Stop
T - Think
O - Observe
P - Plan

Claiming a Miata is a far better vehicle than a BMW? That right there is non-sense. A Miata might be better at getting more MPG, but the BMW will slaughter it.

The Vette's suspension is old. Doesn't matter. Old is old. Coil over suspension is far better, uses the same housing for the shock absorber thus' reducing weight without needing seperate mounting places or shackles. Leafs are heavier than coils, require a different mounting place for the shock absorber increasing weight for the mounting spots.

With that said, what will you say? Oh! I know "your ignorant and cannot posts to my arguements, but just rant on 'Tommy-boy'" Please Phillip. Your just like a CD Player, stuck on repeat. Nothing you say changes at all.

You are incoherent with many of the things you say. In reality, no one cares on what you say these days. Your a prick, people just show you affection because of your attention needs.

Also, your picture seems like it is something you would do.

[bondo]

Originally Posted by texan_idiot25

skipping musta been the best way to keep his penny loafers dry while crossing the street to get in his miata....

[texan_idiot25]

Oh look, it's the same argument reworded again, this time even wordier. Yup, I'm in college, have a job, make good money. Able to make some side money with cars. Close minded? Nah, not any more, and I even listed faults for a handful of other automakers with in the target price range/age initially mentioned. You ignored that and continue to complain over and over about German cars. You've never brought any real arguments to the table, just a lot of wordy ranting. "Old," **** man, wheels are old. Doors are old. Window are old. You compare the Vette's suspension to a horse and buggy, and in doing so show that you have no comprehension of the actual setup. Topgear is not factual, learn about the suspension setup. But hey, that makes your [dad's] S10 DOUBLE crappy. It's got two leaf springs. Makes sense, yes?

Yes, the Miata is a good bit better than an E30 stock for stock, outside of the M cars. Lighter (Taking the Colin Chapman philosophy of "Adding Lightness"), better suspension with upper/lower control arms with coil overs on all 4 corners instead of ("old") McPherson struts up front, and ("old") rear trailing arm setup. It's straight line performance is very similar to the E30 as well, but you don't pick either car for drag race. You can only show ignorance if you deny the Miata's handling, there's a **** fine reason it's dominated SCCA and auto-x for such a long time.

Originally Posted by Blade.

Phillip, you might want to take note. I do not mis-type or mis's'pell any of my words.

Your claiming this is only for a DD

You're. You are. Don't start to lecture when you can't follow some of the most basic rules. English is derived from many languages, the Britts didn't pull it out of the air. And arguing about minimal spelling differences between countries? Jesus, you're bringing things that aren't in any way relevant to the discussion into your posts... To show some sort of intelligence? This is very common to have different variations of one language. Spanish is a prime example, where there's different forms based on region. "Mexican" Spanish and "Central American" Spanish are not unlike "American" English and "British" English, or "Canadian" English. There's no right way between the different variations, each is acceptable. Favorite, Favourite, etc etc. It's regional.

Originally Posted by jimmythekid1

In general you suck, and regularly make you self look like a fool. What’s up with that?

[jimmythekid1]

I wonder what these two modern fully independent suspensions fit?

[winner]

Originally Posted by jimmythekid1

I wonder what these two modern fully independent suspensions fit?

i dont know my vettes very well, but im pretty sure the C5 came with the most advanced suspension. so im guessing thoose are for a C5? but i dont know my vettes to the best i could, correct me if im wrong please?